Pro Bowl Snubs

[Jay]

Originally Posted by Browns17

ok Willie Parker only has the most yards because he has almost 100 more carries than most RBs in the NFL and compared to Fred Taylor this is how it pans out:
Willie Parker: 320 att, 1317 yds, 2 TDs, 4.1 avg

Fred Taylor: 216 att, 1091yds, 4 TDs, 5.1 avg

So with 104 less carries Taylor has just 226 less yards, 2 more TDS, and a 1 yard more average per carry than Parker (Taylor's attempts are right up there with alot of starting RBs)

You also have to realize that Taylor is in a platoon system and he benefits from MJD softening up the defense so he can come in with fresh legs. I do think Taylor was snubbed but those guys ahead of him are also just as deserving. There's no telling how Taylor would stand up under the pressure of being the #1 workhorse so to compare YPC doesn't work because both situations are different.

Taylor is having a pro bowl caliber season, but so is Parker, if anyone should be replaced it's Addai not Parker

[owens81]

Originally Posted by hit_'em88

any other year Derek Anderson would have made it but its hard to argue against Brady, Manning, and Big Ben.
How does Jason Taylor (10 sacks, 48 total tackles) make it Mario Williams (13 sacks {2nd in league, tops in AFC} 53 total tackles)?

And how on earth did Marion Barber get in? He has 871 yds rushing and 9 tds. Ryan Grant almost has him in those catagories (799 yds 6 tds) and he's only really palyed 8 games. Clinton Portis (1,082 yds 8 tds) and Earnest Graham (877 yds 10 tds) much more deserving than Barber.

The biggest screw-job given this year was Fred Taylor. I know he only had 4 tds, but this guy has over 10,000 yds and 60 tds just rushing in his career yet no pro bowls. This guy deserves a pro bowl spot as much or more than anyone in the league.

What about Marques Colston? More receptions than all 4 NFC Pro Bowl WRs, More yards than Driver and Holt, and more TDs Fitzgerald, Holt and Driver.

do you watch football. first off marion the barbarion aint even a starter, second he can run through or over any1 in the league

[hit_'em88]

Originally Posted by owens81

do you watch football. first off marion the barbarion aint even a starter, second he can run through or over any1 in the league

where in my post do i say that barber is a starter? in fact in another post i say barber isn't even the starter on his team, which is why i dont think he deserves it.
read more than one post before you say somethin stupid

[susielr]

Originally Posted by JCD

Again, it isn't really fair to compare a split timer to a starter on another team. Parker has endured a lot more punishment (something that has frequently derailed Taylor during his career).

Taylor is indeed deserving, but to say that the pro bowl dowsn't have room for the league's leading rusher is just silly.

Amen

[susielr]

Originally Posted by jBuds

Agreed. Mario Williams should be there as well - so should Donte Whitner

[jcurry3rd]

Taylor is still being passed over due to his old nickname fragile fred and i am sorry but voting in a dead man bothers me when there are players who have pro bowl clauses in contract.... kinda sucks but truth be told he can be honored another way like his number on helmet or shoes etc etc

[Browns17]

Originally Posted by JCD

You keep repeating yourself and it isn't any more convincing than the 1st time you said it.

Yes, Taylor is having a good season splitting carries with Drew-Jones. Parker is having a good season as a featured back.

You put far too much important on minor statistical differences and refuse to accept that their is a notable difference in splitting time versus being a featured back. To repeat, Michael Turner put up phenominal statistics batting clean-up for Tomlinson. Why wasn't he in the ProBowl? Heck, the guy averaged over 6 yards per carry one year. If you followed Taylor's career, you would know that when he was a featured back, he would routinely break down. There are notable differences in the demands placed on a featured back versus one that splits carries.

Considerations:
-Offensive line. Jags offensive line is one of the most under-rated in the league. In terms of run blocking, they are one of the best. Steelers line is, simply put, bad. Faneca is not having a good year, Smith is struggling, Simmons is a warm body starter while Colon and Mahan are not starting material period. That has a HUGE impact on a RBs statistics.
-Gameplan. Steelers are passing more this year. Especially in the Red Zone where they feature the 2-TE set. They do not hammer the ball in on the ground. Jags do.
-Wear-and-tear. More carries, more wear and tear. It is easier to keep those flashy per-carry numbers when you have a smaller sample size.

Add them up and the minor statistical differences are not nearly as impressive as you make them seem.

All 4 backs were deserving of going to the Pro Bowl. The selection committee went with the 3 backs that were full-time starters. I have no problem with that.

Put another way, it Taylor was in over Parker, there would be an ever bigger uproar over leaving the NFL's leading rusher out for a guy that isn't even his teams clear-cut starter.

1. Fred Taylor has been getting the ball alot more times lately, he basically is the featured back right now, how many times recently have you seen MJD besides on passing plays?

2. I watch alot of Steelers games, and I see Najeh Davenport in ALOT of the time, because Parker simply can't get the short yardage or the TDs. He doesn't score enough to be in the Pro Bowl (2TDs)

3. First of all LT don't split carries with Turner, he's the back up running back, Taylor is the starting RB in Jacksonville. You keep saying how come Michael Turner was never in a Pro Bowl because his YPC is always high, becuase you keep forgetting the main reason you want Parker in there, He never went over a 1000yds and I don't think he ever came close to it backing up LT.

4. You can't even say Taylor shouldn't be in over Parker because he splits carries with MJD, because Taylor has just as much carries as most starting NFL RBs.

5. If you give Parker as many carries as Taylor has he wouldn't be over 1000 that's for sure, you can even add like 25 more carries than Taylor and still won't be and probably won't even have a TD.

6. I'm not saying Parker is a bad RB or that he doesn't deserve to be in the Pro Bowl, just not over Taylor (or Addai in Jay's case)

7. (to Jay) Addai has 251 att, 1019 yds, 11 TDs, and 4.1 YPC+since he's in a pass first Offense, he's got 39 rec (more than Anthony Gonzalez), 351 yds, and 3 more TDs, so 14 TDs total, not deserving of Pro Bowl over Parker?
(Parker- 23 rec, 164yds, 0TDs)

[Jay]

you can't use the pass 1st offense argument this year because the loss of Harrison greatly inflates his numbers

[Browns17]

Originally Posted by Jay

you can't use the pass 1st offense argument this year because the loss of Harrison greatly inflates his numbers

That doesn't mean he shouldn't be in the Pro Bowl b/c Harrison hasn't played, and they are a pass first offense, with or without Harrison

[Jay]

Originally Posted by Browns17

That doesn't mean he shouldn't be in the Pro Bowl b/c Harrison hasn't played, and they are a pass first offense, with or without Harrison

His production is still increased without Harrison which accounts for his bump in TDs and that's the only measure that outweighs Taylor, That's why I would say Taylor should be ahead of Addai.

[JCD]

Originally Posted by Browns17

1. Fred Taylor has been getting the ball alot more times lately, he basically is the featured back right now, how many times recently have you seen MJD besides on passing plays?

There has been virtually no change in how many touches MJD has received lately:
Maurice Jones-Drew: Game Logs

Or Taylor:
Fred Taylor: Game Logs

MJD has 191 touches to Taylor's 225. Less than 3 more touches than the guy behind you isn't a featured back's work load. That is a guy platooning with another back. A pretty consistent 60-40 split.

So no, Taylor has not been basically like a starting back the past few weeks.

Want to know the truth? Taylor is only getting Pro-Bowl consideration because of the tear he has been on the last 4 games. Previous to that run, he had only 600 yards and 1 TD on the season. Not that he has seen the ball a appreciably more, but because he is on a hot streak.

Originally Posted by Browns17

2. I watch alot of Steelers games, and I see Najeh Davenport in ALOT of the time, because Parker simply can't get the short yardage or the TDs. He doesn't score enough to be in the Pro Bowl (2TDs)

You need to get your eyes checked then. Davenpoop has only 87 touches on the season.
Najeh Davenport: Game Logs
Only 10 in the last 4 games.

How is it that Davenport sees "ALOT" of time while getting <20% of the touches when MJD is a non-factor despite getting >40%?

Parker is not a good short-yardage back, which is where Davenpoop sees most of his action.

If you want to exclude Parker because he comes off the field in short-yardage situations, then you best also cross off Taylor. He does the exact same thing. Greg Jones is the short-yardage specialist for the Jags and has just as many TDs (4) as Taylor.

Originally Posted by Browns17

3. First of all LT don't split carries with Turner, he's the back up running back, Taylor is the starting RB in Jacksonville. You keep saying how come Michael Turner was never in a Pro Bowl because his YPC is always high, becuase you keep forgetting the main reason you want Parker in there, He never went over a 1000yds and I don't think he ever came close to it backing up LT.

You really miss the point. You kept on talking about how many more yards Taylor would have if he had as many carries as Parker. That is simply bad math. You can't compare the two situations. Just like you can't look at the gaudy numbers Turner put up back-up up LT and assume he would be just as productive given a full time role.

I advise you to look up the career of Richard Huntly. Or Amos Zeroue (sp?). Both of them posted gaudy numbers is part-time roles. Both of them bombed when given a larger role.

You fail to grasp the difference in a part-time versus a full-time workload. YPC is not a transitive property.

Originally Posted by Browns17

4. You can't even say Taylor shouldn't be in over Parker because he splits carries with MJD, because Taylor has just as much carries as most starting NFL RBs.

I can, I will, and I did.

Taylor is in the top-15 in rushing attempts only because Jags ran the ball 471 times this year. Taylor was involved in only 45% if those runs.

More so, he does not have just as many touches as most other starting RBs.
NFL Stats: by Player Category

The only starters below him in touches are those that have missed time due to injury.

Originally Posted by Browns17

5. If you give Parker as many carries as Taylor has he wouldn't be over 1000 that's for sure, you can even add like 25 more carries than Taylor and still won't be and probably won't even have a TD.

No, that isn't for sure. It is pure speculation on your part. More so, to say he wouldn't even have a TD is just laughable. Your bias against the Steelers is clouding your ability to think clearly.

Originally Posted by Browns17

6. I'm not saying Parker is a bad RB or that he doesn't deserve to be in the Pro Bowl, just not over Taylor (or Addai in Jay's case)

That is where we disagree. There is nothing about Taylor that makes him clearly more deserving than ANY of the other three. All four are worthy.

Originally Posted by Browns17

7. (to Jay) Addai has 251 att, 1019 yds, 11 TDs, and 4.1 YPC+since he's in a pass first Offense, he's got 39 rec (more than Anthony Gonzalez), 351 yds, and 3 more TDs, so 14 TDs total, not deserving of Pro Bowl over Parker?
(Parker- 23 rec, 164yds, 0TDs)

Who is leading the league in rushing yards? You want to keep the league's leading rusher out of the Pro-Bowl for a player that gets less than half of his team's rushing attempts? Mind you, Taylor is doing a phenominal job with those touches (at least in the last month), but he isn't performing at such a level where he is a clear choice.

Now, had he played all season like he has these last four weeks, things would be different. But through the 1st 11 weeks of the season, Taylor never broke 100 yards (broke 80 only 3 times) and scored only a single TD. Without a doubt, Addai, Parker and LT grossly outplayed Taylor through 11 weeks this season. Taylor's 4-week run is the only reason he is in this conversation. It is enough to get him consideration, but clearly the voters are looking at the entire season instead of just the last month.

[hit_'em88]

what i dont get is why does the voting end 3 weeks before the season is over? Taylors big game against Pitt means nothing because all voting ended before last sunday.

[Browns17]

Originally Posted by JCD

There has been virtually no change in how many touches MJD has received lately:
Maurice Jones-Drew: Game Logs

Or Taylor:
Fred Taylor: Game Logs

MJD has 191 touches to Taylor's 225. Less than 3 more touches than the guy behind you isn't a featured back's work load. That is a guy platooning with another back. A pretty consistent 60-40 split.

So no, Taylor has not been basically like a starting back the past few weeks.

Want to know the truth? Taylor is only getting Pro-Bowl consideration because of the tear he has been on the last 4 games. Previous to that run, he had only 600 yards and 1 TD on the season. Not that he has seen the ball a appreciably more, but because he is on a hot streak.



You need to get your eyes checked then. Davenpoop has only 87 touches on the season.
Najeh Davenport: Game Logs
Only 10 in the last 4 games.

How is it that Davenport sees "ALOT" of time while getting <20% of the touches when MJD is a non-factor despite getting >40%?

Parker is not a good short-yardage back, which is where Davenpoop sees most of his action.

If you want to exclude Parker because he comes off the field in short-yardage situations, then you best also cross off Taylor. He does the exact same thing. Greg Jones is the short-yardage specialist for the Jags and has just as many TDs (4) as Taylor.



You really miss the point. You kept on talking about how many more yards Taylor would have if he had as many carries as Parker. That is simply bad math. You can't compare the two situations. Just like you can't look at the gaudy numbers Turner put up back-up up LT and assume he would be just as productive given a full time role.

I advise you to look up the career of Richard Huntly. Or Amos Zeroue (sp?). Both of them posted gaudy numbers is part-time roles. Both of them bombed when given a larger role.

You fail to grasp the difference in a part-time versus a full-time workload. YPC is not a transitive property.



I can, I will, and I did.

Taylor is in the top-15 in rushing attempts only because Jags ran the ball 471 times this year. Taylor was involved in only 45% if those runs.

More so, he does not have just as many touches as most other starting RBs.
NFL Stats: by Player Category

The only starters below him in touches are those that have missed time due to injury.



No, that isn't for sure. It is pure speculation on your part. More so, to say he wouldn't even have a TD is just laughable. Your bias against the Steelers is clouding your ability to think clearly.



That is where we disagree. There is nothing about Taylor that makes him clearly more deserving than ANY of the other three. All four are worthy.



Who is leading the league in rushing yards? You want to keep the league's leading rusher out of the Pro-Bowl for a player that gets less than half of his team's rushing attempts? Mind you, Taylor is doing a phenominal job with those touches (at least in the last month), but he isn't performing at such a level where he is a clear choice.

Now, had he played all season like he has these last four weeks, things would be different. But through the 1st 11 weeks of the season, Taylor never broke 100 yards (broke 80 only 3 times) and scored only a single TD. Without a doubt, Addai, Parker and LT grossly outplayed Taylor through 11 weeks this season. Taylor's 4-week run is the only reason he is in this conversation. It is enough to get him consideration, but clearly the voters are looking at the entire season instead of just the last month.

Well good job you obvisously did your homework, obviously we don't see eye to eye but hey if everyone did we wouldnt need these boards, I concede to you since you are putting up a better case for Parker than I am for Taylor b/c I could really care less, just I think that a 10 thousand yard rusher just deserves to be in the Pro Bowl at least once in his career, even though he probably will now that Parker fractured his fibula.

[MesaRunner]

Looks like Taylor is going to get to go to the ProBowl afterall. Parker is going to be out for a long while with a broken leg.

[susielr]

Originally Posted by Browns17

Well it's silly that Taylor was kept out when he's doing just as good as Parker (actually better), Taylor's team is doing better than Parkers team, Taylors team beat Parkers team, Taylor was huge against the Steelers, Parker was good that game (100yds), but Taylor is on a 4-game 100+ yard game streak, and deserves to be in over Parker, regardless of Parker having 226 more yards and 104 more attempts, Paker only has 2 TDs which should not allow him to be in it over Taylor

Well now you got your wish...Parker broke his ankle last night and is out the rest of the year.