Who Dat?

About time this got done. 2nd and a 5th is fair value if he is healthy (crosses fingers). If he is, the Saints offense just got a heckuva lot better obviously. Let's get the season started already!

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"One thing is the coaching, the other is the players."

John Madden (on the Patriots success)

hit_'em88

Yes!!!!! :d

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Jay

Great acquisition, this adds a legitimate thump to the offense. Shockey has quite a few pro bowl years left in him.

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CLUTCH CITY!!! ... Never underestimate the heart of a CHAMPION

scarletbolt21

I think the giants are a happy team with this trade.

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Light out

Canadian Speed

So do I... So now having Shockey should make Bush a good back? Right... LOL! Sorry, couldn't help that one... I don't see this making that much of a diff to tell you the truth... It makes for a decent target in the middle, but it's not like this team was all that gun shy to begin with...

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I'm Canadian, but even I can't endorse a sport that allows fighting as a way to resolve disputes or lists an unrelated behaviour such as fighting as an asset. That's why I don't watch hockey!

Who Dat?

It gives them their best TE since Hoby Brenner. If he's healthy, he will thrive in this offense.

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"One thing is the coaching, the other is the players."

John Madden (on the Patriots success)

Canadian Speed

True Dat! Haha, you like how I did dat... Haha did it again... Ahhh any how, yes he should do fine is this system, he'll add a bit of edge to a team in need and with the amount of passes that they've trown in the past, it'll make for a legit check down receiver allowing some of their burners to try and get deeper then they had last year. I still think that the teams success rests on the D and not another O player. Shocky's not playing for nothing and that cap room could have gotten them some help on the D side of things... That just my take on it... Or if you're going to go on the O side of things, draft a lineman to make Reggie look better, which Shockey kind of is, but not in the way that I mean...

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I'm Canadian, but even I can't endorse a sport that allows fighting as a way to resolve disputes or lists an unrelated behaviour such as fighting as an asset. That's why I don't watch hockey!

Who Dat?

All-Pro caliber players for 2nd round pick deals don't grow on trees. Would I love to trade a 2nd round pick for Bryant McKinnie, sure? Would I love to trade a 2nd round pick for Marcus Trufant? You bet. Saying that they shouldn't have dealt a 2nd for Shockey because they could possibly use that draft pick to draft a great offensive lineman is akin to saying that they should pass on a deal of a 2nd round pick for Andre Johnson because the pick might turn into Jerry Rice. They've done a tremendous job of drafting offensive linemen as of late especially in the later rounds. A 2009 draft choice in the 2nd round is not going to help the team block any beter this season, but Shockey will. Saying they should focus more on the defense, when those opportunites haven't presented themselves in the same fashion as the magnitude of the Shockey deal is a moot point. If Vilma is healthy, Bullocks and McKenzie are healthy and Charles Grant doesn't shoot anyone for the next month or so, they will be ok.

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"One thing is the coaching, the other is the players."

John Madden (on the Patriots success)

Canadian Speed

Actuely it's more like they picked up a guy that might return to his probowl ways, then again, he might not... They went and picked up a guy like Kevin Jones, the kind of guy that everybody hopes returns to his former self, but that's still very much in the air at this time.

The names you use to try and make your point never sustained any kind of major injuries and as such they don't really apply. We can't tell if Shockey's leg will be able to return to full form. Furthermore, we all know that the probowl ballots are the result of fans choices and not really of over all production on the feild, so even this is a moot point. As there were several other TEs that had better years... And several other TEs that are better blockers...

That being said, I simply said that they they could have used that pick on a fresh body that could have:

1. Helped the Defence (Strahan leaving has an impact. Young isn't so any more. Only one good DB and a passable SS in a pass happy side of the league)

2. Gotten Reggie a better blocker, which Shockey isn't known for... Which is what I mean by "But not like I mean"

See, it rare that you're going to see a TE be the featured receiver on a team. Jeremy may be good, but he's not better then the receivers that you've already got on the squad. He's a good choice, don't get me wrong, but he's better at something that your team is already strong in, and not so much in areas where you guys need to improove... Is that a fair statement?

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I'm Canadian, but even I can't endorse a sport that allows fighting as a way to resolve disputes or lists an unrelated behaviour such as fighting as an asset. That's why I don't watch hockey!

Who Dat?

What does Strahan retiring have to do with the Saints defense? Shockey is a better receiver than any WR on the Saints not named Colston. Randall Gay and Mike McKenzie are a decent CB duo if healthy, Bullocks and Harper are young and if Bullocks can stay on the field can be very good players from what we've seen early on. My point is that a healthy Shockey helps the team more than just being a guy who runs post routes every down. He can be a safety valve when the line breaks down, he can run block better than any other TE on the Saints roster and lastly he is a player who you can run plays for. The Saints real only weakness is at LB, provided the O-line stays healthy and returns to 2006 form. The DL is now stacked once Ellis signs with Smith, Grant, Ellis and Young, they should put all kinds of pressure on the QB with Ellis and Young stuffing the run (plus Smith plays the run very well from the outside). This should take some pressure off the LB's as well. My point is that Payton must have big plans for a healthy Shockey if he pursued him this much, who am I to argue. With LB being the only really weak starting unit on the team (helped now via Vilma though who is indeed healthy apparently), it's not like Payton was approached with a Zach Thomas for a 2nd round pick deal and he chose to take the Shockey deal instead. Like I said deals work both ways and he improved the defense via the draft and free agency already. This is a fairly low risk deal with potential for a huge return.

The only part of your post that made some semblance of sense to me is that Shockey's leg might not hold up. I agree, but for anything other than a 1st rounder, I'm willing to take that risk if he passed the physicals which he obviously did.

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"One thing is the coaching, the other is the players."

John Madden (on the Patriots success)

Canadian Speed

Sorry about the Strahan thing, it was from another thread and I got the two mixed up...

The fact of the matter is that there will likely be other players out there in the second round that will be better then Shockey.

So here's what we can do here...

#1. If Shockey gets hurt in a serious way... It's a bad call.
#2. If there's a D player in the second round that makes an impact... Bad call.
#3. If Shoockey doesn't put up number like he once did... Bad call.
#4. If he rides the pine and then gets released... Bad Call.
#5. If he throws a fit an causes all sorts of drama... Bad Call.

Now those five things aside. Your DBs need to stay healthy, which isn't a great chance, given their field record. Vilma is another guy that we're gonna have to wait and see what happens there... All things considered, he's a check down man, as I said in my original post. And he's a good receiver as well, which the Saints already have a good deal of... Colston didn't catch all those passes himself last year...

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I'm Canadian, but even I can't endorse a sport that allows fighting as a way to resolve disputes or lists an unrelated behaviour such as fighting as an asset. That's why I don't watch hockey!

Who Dat?

1. If anyone gets hurt in any trade the trade looks bad
2. You must throw your hat into the GM ring soon then if you can predict that there will be a 2nd round player in next year's draft that the Saints could have gotten that will be an all-pro for several years. There aren't too many GM's that can do that.
3. Again, if any trade for any player results in worse numbers for said player, it's a bad trade. Don't see how this is anything new.
4. Again, you are some kind of prognosticator if you can tell which players will get benched and released when the coach is in love with said player.
5. That is the million dollar question, but if the coach is sold, so am I. This isn't a Jerry Jones GM thing where he wants someone but the coach doesn't.

Your arguements are baseless and are steeped in "what if the next Ray Lewis is picked in the middle of Round 2 next season and what if Peyton and Shockey don't get along", etc. Shockey is not simply just a check down man, he can run posts, take the LB with him and open up the underneath for Bush to catch more balls in open space. The thread becomes pointless when it becomes a series of what if's. What if they keep the 2nd round pick and it turns into another Johnathan Sullivan and Shockey got dealt somewhere else and puts up All-Pro numbers because he's playing with a chip on his shoulder? It works both ways.

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"One thing is the coaching, the other is the players."

John Madden (on the Patriots success)

Canadian Speed

Your arguments are no more credible then mine... But given those five things that I listed... If/when they happen, we'll know what kind of a deal this was... That's all... We'll have to wait and see... Till then both sides of this argument are assumptions.

And BTW stop being an idot and adding names to the comments that I make if I don't add names to them myself. I've never mentioned Ray Lewis or any of the other players that you've mentioned. It's misleading and petty. Deal with the comments as they are without changing them...

You may want to note however that since 2000, there have been 67 players that were not in the 1st round that have made it into the Pro Bowl. That a little more then 9 a year. This dosen't take into account just how many of these players, those taken in rounds other then the 1st, are starters on their teams...

Therefore, a 2nd round pick is still a pretty high price to pay for a banged up player with an attitude problem...

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I'm Canadian, but even I can't endorse a sport that allows fighting as a way to resolve disputes or lists an unrelated behaviour such as fighting as an asset. That's why I don't watch hockey!

Who Dat?

Please take some time away, come back and attempt to insult somebody using proper spelling.

Finally a rational thought out of your drivel, we will have to wait and see what happens, much like every trade in sports history. If a late 2nd round pick taken by Seattle or someone turns out to be the next coming of Jack Lambert you can say the Saints woulda/shoulda taken him without knowing if they even worked him out and can then say I told you I suppose. Actually, I suppose if ANYONE taken in the back of the 2nd round or beyond becomes a HOFer, the trade in your estimation was a failure no matter what Shockey does because there was a chance that out of the couple hundred prospects in the 2nd round and beyond, that the Saints could have interviewed, worked out, then selected said player. That's a big advantage I suppose.

I do agree that this will have to bear itself out so thus this is going nowhere since neither of us can predict the future. Thus I'm closing it for now and in 2010 you can tell me which late round surprises the Saints should have drafted in 2009.

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"One thing is the coaching, the other is the players."

John Madden (on the Patriots success)