Gzus

ESPN - QB Kitna says Lions will win 10-plus games in '07 - NFL

Come on, there is no way the Lions can win 10+ games let alone 10. I seriously doubt they can post a +.500 record this season. I agree Calvin Johnson is one of the best WRs to come through the draft in many years, but the guy will not improve your record by 7 games just because he was picked up. Lions win at most 6-7 games next season, and someone needs to check what Kitna is smoking.

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GzusJuice (15-1) 2007 FBB.com Fantasy Football League Champion
I may have not gone undefeated, but I won it all, cause I ain't no Patriot *grin*.

Hawknut5

Does he know that marijuana is illeagle here?

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Rick Astley

Kitna must have been hit in the head too many times during his time in Cincinnati.

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ASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSSSSSSS

Transplanted Caper

His agent has him in line for the Madonna Biopic for all that time spent on his back.

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Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar. - Edward R. Murrow

RBCBWR20

i have been a lions fan forever i grew up watching barry sanders play and i know the lions might not win many games latly but they are productive in the passing attack this year kitna 4000+ yards mike and roy williams both 1000+ yards and mike furrey led nfc in receptions and they were rated number 2 dou in terms of receptions this year comming in second with 180 (first place 181) add a third receiver who is supposed to be the best in recent years and is 225 that can run a 4.3 okay now they cant double anyone in the lions offense because if they do that leaves man or zone coverage on mike furrey calvin johnson or roy williams they are too good to be stopped i bet another year with roy top 3 in receiving mike and calvin one will have 1000+ yards and kitna with another 4000+ yards but im not saying that they will win 10+ games but they will break .500 it depends if their defense steps up witch is their downfall that i can see right now they made a few good grabs at safty and defensive end and of course you have shaun rogers cory redding ernie sims boss baily fernado bryant all good players and wasnt it the lions who brought down tony romo and the dallas in their last week? mr. romosexual

JCD

I think the Lion's gaudy passing numbers are very misleading. They are a result of the most unbalanced play-calling and 1-dimensional offense in the league, not actual dominance.

While the Lions were 7th in the league in passing, they were dead last in rushing with >60 fewer attempts than any other team in the league. More so, the Lions were far-and-away the worst team in the league at getting 1st downs on the ground.

The end result was that, despite the high number of passign yards, was a predictable offense that barely outpaced the Vikings in total yardage. More so, it was a highly ineffective offense that was terrible at clock management, 3rd worst at converting 3rd downs, was highly prone to penalties and managed only 31 TDs despite a lot of garbage time play.

Now, the Lions did add a number of players who might help. Duckett and Bell help at RB, while Mulitalo and Foster might help on the o-line (I stress might as the Lions are banking on a guy who lost his job and an old player coming off injury to help out an already old and injury-prone unit).

More to a point, I think the Lions are doomed to a statistically passing impressive offense but ultimately bad offense until Martz's playcalling is held in check. Until Kitna is protected by establishing a running game, the Lions will continue to rack up a lot of passing numbers en rout to a bottom-half offensive finish. Might have the best trio of WRs in the league and Kitna might top 4500 yards, but the offense will still be bad overall.

If you are going to have a predictable offense, pass-first is a bad way to go. Especially when you have a warm body at QB. It leads to a ton of turnovers (Lions finished 3rd with 39 givaways, including 25 INTs), leaves you in a lot of 3rd and longs (hence the bad 3rd down %), makes clock management impossible and hangs your defense out to dry (lots of 3 and outs, no time to rest).

RBCBWR20

no i think they do have a dominance and yes they may seem one dimentional but they did run a bit but since most games the yfail to score on their opening drive it forced them to be down and they needed to pass in some cases just to try to catch up i think the most succesful game i liked was the falcons game and if they coulda held out in the fourth quarter vs the patriots they coulda won that game they were on the fringe of winning every game except a few were they lost by more that 14 points most games were by 7 points or less. so they are lingering on the edge of winning and i think that they will be pushed over the edge this year. next year playoffs. i say .500 this year maybe not 10+ wins. i know they have the talent there they just need the additude. football is 90% mental. so they have a tendacy of losing . some players that belive they can win will win if they get a mentality going that they are accually capable if they start running more i know kevin jones is a good back ive seen him break it a few times (expecially his rookie season 1100+ yards) he just have been plagued by injuries and not enough carries. and he had over 1000 yards from scrimige this year rushing and recieving. i think he had most receptions by a running back this year or top 3 i know he was number one before he got injured and i think he will be back for the season maybe not traning camp or preseason but he will be back for season and calvin johnson is going to dominate he is going to have the most impact by far than any other reciever 6'4 225 40+ inch vertical 4.3 40 whens the last time you've seen a 6'4-6'5 wide reciever run a 4.3? its been awhile since this kinda talent came outta the draft.plus dont forget roy williams and mike furrey. they just got a guy from nfl europa who led in receptions and punt returns. im biast and i should be i think the lions are due for their chance to shine.

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don't wait for respect, for respect may never come, you must take it. winning isn't everything but it beats losing. - I'm The Future, The next best Player -

JCD

The evidence doesn't back that up, nor does Martz history. Lions didn't just pass because they fell behind, they opened up pass-crazy. They were in "play from behind mode" on the opening drive. It is a big reason why you failed to close out games in the 4th quarter.

Even look at your few wins, you still had wildly skewed ratios:
-39 passes versus 27 runs versus the Bills
-35 passes to 27 rushes against the Falcons (which was sadly, your most balanced game of the year)
-36 passes to 24 runs against the Cowboys.

You are throwing >65% in your wins, it wasn't just in catch-up mode. Knowing that, take the gaudy passing numbers with a grain of salt. It is inflated, forced production.

Falcons was their only win by more than a single score, so it is easy to figure out which was your best game. It was also the only game where your Run/Pass ratio was under 60% pass.

The Patriots loss is entirely my point. Kitna attempted 40 passes that game versus only 24 runs. In the 4th quarter, when you should have been running out the clock, Martz was still having Kitna lob the ball up. The result? 3 4th quarter TOs, 2 off INTs the 3rd a fumble on a sack. You lost that game because Martz refused to run.

Close loses count the same as blow-outs. Plus, they were on the fringe of losing 2 of their 3 wins as well.

Like I said, that is due in large part to you Offensive Coordinator. If you would run the ball more often, you wouldn't have so many 4th quarter collapses.

This contradicts this:

They lack the mental fortitude to win games, but that lack of mental will carry over to help them win this year?

While the "90% mental" makes for a good cliche, it isn't accurate. Winning football is because you have 3 things: an effective system, the talent to perform that system and the discipline to execute that system. Get those three things, you win a lot of football games. Lions are lacking.

Offense has a dysfunctional system, lacks talent (line and QB) and is undisciplined. Defense has a proven system, but lacks talent and discipline as well.

Martz had Faulk and Jackson capable of running the ball. Doesn't mean he did.

Kevin Jones was a good back. If he is still one after injury is unknown.

Anytime a RB has a major foot or leg injury, all bets are off. 95% of the time, it takes them at least 18 months to get back into form. If they ever do. Even if Jones does suit up this year, which is still unknown, it is VERY unlikely that he will be 100%.

The Lions acquired Duckett and Bell for a reason: Jones may not play or be effective this year.

Lets see Johnson catch and NFL pass before calling him an impact player. As a Lion fan, you should be well aware of what can happen to bluechip WR prospects once they hit the NFL. Not saying Johnson is a bust (he is a great prospect), but it may take him a year or two to hit his stride.

Williams and Furrey are vastly over-rated. If not for Martz grotesque playcalling, they wouldn't be getting this hype. Furrey is forced production at it's finest while Williams is maddeningly inconsistent.

I am not biased, I don't see the Lions as this up-and-coming team that others do. I see a team with a culture of losing, inept coaching and a roster loaded with holes.

Lions had major O-line problems last year because they expected a bunch of old, injury-prone players to gel. They didn't. So to fix the issue, they brought in a bunch of old, injury-prone players to try to fix it. What is the difference between bringing in Verba last year versus Mulitalo this year? Except that at least Verba can play 4 spots where-as Mulitalo can only play 2.

Lions didn't make enough use of Jones as a runner last year, now he is hurt. In his place, will be the RBBC of Bell and Duckett. Two failed players. Bell looked worse than Orlandis Gary did in the Denver system, and Duckett was demoted to 4th string in DC. If Martz would trust a decent RB like Jones to carry the ball, why would he trust a pair of warm bodies more?

Defense is attempting the cover-2... only there are no quality edge rushers and the secondary absolutely blows. LBs have a lot of draft picks invested, but have not seen the on-field returns. LBs are a great collection of fast athletes who are still trying to become football players. With Bly gone, there isn't one single quality DB on the roster, just a bunch of nickel and situational players. Combine that with a lackluster (if that) pass rush and you have some major problems.

IMO, I see the Lions about the same. Maybe a win or two more. Maybe a win or two less.

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BigdaddyQH

Detriot winning 10 games is beyond anyone's wildest dreams. This team will not get near .500. We all know about their very good group of WR's, but what else do they have? The Lions have the worst OL in the NFL. Kitna will be passing 2 times out of three because the Lions have no running game, and will give up a ton of sacks. The Lions do have two good DT's but their DE's leave something to be desired. Their LB's are very weak. The Corners are completly up in the air. They still have no set starters, which is very bad. Their safeties are not much better. This team is one of the worst, defensively, in the NFC. Only the fact that Minny has become very one dimentional keeps them from being a lock to finish last in the NFC North.

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RBCBWR20

they have a good defensiv eline accually when healthy and stays outta trouble in redding,cody and shaun rogers(who is a pro bowler) they have a good up and coming linebacker in ernie sims i think he will progress into a good backer and the lions do have a running game they just dont use it and just because bell failed in the denver system does not mean he will not make a good fit in the detroit system which right now is using rbs basically catching outta the backfeild and yes kevin jones prolly not 100% this season he can still do a decent job if he gets to come back and if he can stay away from injury and yes they have some of the best wr's statiscally the second best duo in furrey and williams in terms of receptions and yardage so even if they dont win 10 games which i never have said and if i did i meant to say that at most they will get .500 and i know that the trade of dre bly was stupid but he wanted out so it was better to get something then him holding out or leaving hopefully rod can get martz in check a bit more on the run/pass ratio and 60/40 would be better but he trys a 70/30 and whitch i dont agree with all the time but it does get numbers which you cannot say that williams is over rated.i think he in underrated.and johnson hopefully will be a great football player and he will have a impact this year. even if lions dont get it done this year next year they can patch up the line and secondary. and they did get a safety and end in the draft that are very good ive seen them play in colligate doesnt mean they will play good in nfl but high hopes. and yea well i have faith in my team even when others do not theres always hope look at the steelers before the 1970's they were horrible for 40 years. the lions have had decent seasons.all i can say is lets wait till the season starts then all will be told.

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don't wait for respect, for respect may never come, you must take it. winning isn't everything but it beats losing. - I'm The Future, The next best Player -

JCD

Three good DTs. But no DEs worth mentioning. They are playing a cover-2, which demands getting pressure on the QB from your front-4. Edwards is a disappointment and White failed to establish himself as a starter in TB. Not a good sign.

Need a comparable situation? Vikes tried to play the Cover-2 last year. They had arguably the best pair of DTs in the game, better LBs and a FAR better secondary. That defense was killed because it couldn't get a pass rush from the DE.

Sims had a good year. But no other Detroit LB has had season worth mentioning yet. Need at least 2 more to step up.

Not using something is the same as not having it. More so, I very much question how good it is without a healthy Jones.

Denver has churned out 1200 yard RBs like no other system in history. Do you remember Orlandis Gary? The last Denver RB you acquired, he was far better than Bell for Denver. Gary went from stud to dud once he left. Bell might actually be better outside Denver, but his draft day worries look to be well-founded. While fast, he is injury prone, lacks vision and goes down on first contact.

As for pass-catching, Bell is a liability. He has <50 catches for his career. He cannot catch on the run and doesn't know how to exploit soft spots.


That is a contradiction and is ignoring both history and common sense. Backs coming off injury are no effective and typically do not do a decent job. The overhwhelming odds are that he will be slow (and he wasn't a burner to begin with) and have difficulty changing direction. It will be the 2008 season before Jones can again make an impact, assuming he fully recovers.

Which is a mirage. Their numbers are inflated because they saw far more passes headed their way than any other duo in the NFL. Not because their play warrented it, but because Martz called running plays only around 35% of the time. If not for the pass-crazy system, their numbers would be far more ordinary.

Even .500 seems unrealitic. This was a 3-win team who had lost more talent in the off-season than they gained and have a poor coaching staff who is forcing his system onto a roster lacking the talent to execute it.

I won't begrudge the trade at all. Bly was getting on in years and wasn't going to be around when the Lions are competitive again. He would have been a distraction, so the Lions got what they could for him. The pick was the real value, the toss-in of two failing gambles was just gravy.

The most important numbers that ratio gets you are in the loss column. Only way a team can survive with such skewed play calling is if they have elite degrees of talent to do it: a GREAT pass blocking line, a smart and effective QB, a wealth of WR options and a RB who can catch. More so, a potent defense that can get off the field in a hurry. Eagles managed it a couple years back, Lions have a LONG way to go. Even those who survive like that, just survive. You don't see pass-crazy teams in the post-season often.

That kind of play calling makes a team predictable and easy to defend. Plus, it kills your defense as the offense can't sustain drives.

I can indeed say Williams is over-rated. For a team that passes as much as the Lions do, his 82-catchs, 1310 yards and 7 TDs are not impressive. Compare that to the production other ELITE WRs have done when not force-fed the ball: Holts, Johnson, Moss, Harrison, etc. Roy Williams shows that he does not belong in that company.

But have they done either? Foster lost his job in Denver and Mulitalo didn't play last year. Both are questions, not answers. In the secondary, you lost the only guy that other teams would have to account for.

Both were drafted as projects, IIRC. A small-school end who is more athlete than player and a DB that is expected to play a bigger role on special teams than anywhere else this season.

First that was a different era. Even so, it still took them a few seasons to get good as well.

Nothing wrong with faith in your team.

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BigdaddyQH

Excellent assessment of a poor team. This team has no idea or concept of defense or ball control. They either win a shootout (Atlanta and Dallas last year) or they lose. They simply do not have the talent, and as long as Millen is calling the shots, they will never get it. You can make a good argument that this team has been one of the worst franchaises for the past 40+ years in the NFL. The Ford's simply do not care about their team. If they did, Millen would have been gone a long time ago. By the way, they are 3 point DOGS to Okaland, the worst team in the NFL last year.

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RBCBWR20

odds never predict who will win and shootout or not a win is a win and if uve ever seen some of the catches roy williams had had to make than you would know ive seen some of the best catches one handed behind the back catches from williams and no there were a few good years so i wouldnt say that lions would be arguably the worst franchise but all i can really say is just watch the season unfold and yes i know matt millen needs to go so what does that leave for them to do maybe relocate or find a new general manager?

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don't wait for respect, for respect may never come, you must take it. winning isn't everything but it beats losing. - I'm The Future, The next best Player -

BigdaddyQH

What in the world does "relocating" have to do with Detroits problems? No one has said to relocate. What Detroit should do is get rid of Millen and that entire coaching staff and get people in there with some type of football knowledge. And yes, the Lions are the worst franchise in the NFL for 40+ years. Can you name one worse?

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JCD

The Arizona Cardinals.

Lions have a better overall record and most post-season appearances (as meager as that sum is) than the Cards.

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