JCD

You clearly know nothing about the sport nor have you seen Harris play this year.

Harris has made more plays contributing to the success of a far better defense.

Barnett is so vastly over-rated by Packer Fans it is comical. The same Packer Fans who used to pimp Diggs are now pimping Barnett.

Barnett is an above-average LB, but not much more. Harris isn't much better, but has without-a-doubt has outplayed Barnett this season.

JCD

That is like saying Vangerjagt is a better kicker than Vinatieri. If points are all that matter, then Vanderjagt is the best kicker ever since nobody has been more proficient getting points.

It has nothing to do with experience. It is about knowing how they perform in the clutch, to get the points when they are needed, not gravy. This is Gould's 2nd season and he has NEVER had to decide a game with his leg. On top of that, he has NEVER even attempted a kick from 50 yards.

Points do matter. Put 90% of the kickers in the league in Gould situation and they too would be leading the league in points. All he has had to do is line up from inside 40-some yards and knocking home easy points in blow-outs. The next time he trots onto the field in OT or late in the 4th will be the first. Very little has been asked of him.

Lets compare them equally:
How many game winning kicks has Gould made? Longwell has the OT gamewinner against the Panthers PLUS the game tying TD pass. The gamewinning kick against the Redskins with 60 seconds left on the clock. Gould? None.

How important have they been to the offense? Longwell has supplied 41 of the Vikes meager 89 points, 46% of the total offense. Gould has been in 4 blow-outs. Had Gould missed EVERY kick, Bears still win all but the Vikes game. Take away Longwell's points, Vikes are winless.

How have they been on the tough kicks? This is the only place where Gould ties Longwell. Longwell has missed both his 50+ kicks. Gould has yet to attempt one.

In other words, Gould has yet to do anything that virtually any other kicker in the league isn't capable of. Line up for short-range kicks with no pressure and knock home easy points in blow-outs.

Coaches favor experienced kickers they can trust for a reason. Gould still has yet to prove he can be counted on when it matters. Until he does, tough to bank on him over a guy who has proven himself (not only historically, but this year as well).

lizakollman

[quote=SDK_06_CHAMP;11388]How would you rank the 4 starting QB's in the North so far this season?

I would rank them as follows:

1) Grossman
2) Johnson
3) Farvre
4) Kitna

JCD

[quote=lizakollman;11688]
Even as a Vikes fan, come on. I can buy Johnson over Kitna, but not over Favre. Farve is over the hill and no longer an elite player, but he is still far more effective than Johnson. Used to be that you could at least say Brad protects the ball, but Johnson has 4 picks and 3 fumbles (1 lost) through 5 games while scoring only 3 TDs. Farve has protected the ball nearly as well as Johnson, but has scored twice as many TDs with a far worse supporting cast.

triumph

Everyone knows the two best QBs in the NFL or facing off at Noon Tomorrow in Texas.

Bledsoe vs Carr, Carr vs Bledsoe.

1A and 1AA

__________________
Da Cowboys!

Make a Commerical with the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders!

SDK_06_CHAMP

you cant dismiss someone because they havent had to make a game winning kick. just because longwell has doesnt make him better. also you cant add a TD pass as any criteria because "90%" of kickers wont be given that chance. sorry, but its the truth. numbers dont lie. gould 1 longwell 2

SDK_06_CHAMP

yeah i put them in the wrong order. grossman, favre, johnson, kitna.

JCD

You certainly can dismiss somebody because they have never made a long FG or game winning kick.

Perhaps you would ake Vanderjagt over Vinatieri (numbers don't lie...), but not me. Seems like the Colts wouldn't either.

Agree to disagree.

lizakollman

[quote=JCD;11693]i'll retract. you convinced me. maybe johnson of last year over farve of two years FROM now. hehehe

Who Dat?

KGB is perhaps the most one dimensional non-kicker in football. Like you said, Harris is nowhere near that one-dimensional. I just go back to the whole if I'm starting a team thing I take Harris 1st and fill in more traditional run stoppers around him.

JCD

You seem to be implying that Rogers and Williams are ONLY run stoppers.

That is not the case. They both collapse the pocket AND stop the run. With either of them, you don't have to put in a pure run stopper next to them in order to mask their deficiencies, they don't have any. Even putting a run stopped next to Harris doesn't correct the problem, a tackle can only cover 2-gaps at the most, there is still the far DT-DE gap that can be exploited. Put Rogers and Williams next to each other, your team gets as many (or close to as many) sacks and you are better against the run.

Rather than build a team with players you will need other players to compensate for, I prefer to build a more complete team with fewer specialists.

Who Dat?

Your complete team in the build your team thread was missing a fullback. I was led to believe this particular thread wasn't build a team it was "the best". We agree to disagree, IMHO he is the best DT in football currently. A healthy Kris Jenkins being an exception.

latinman280

Not to interrupt the discussion but I would have to agree with the:

1) Grossman
2) Favre
3) Johnson
4) Kitna

layout of the top four. Oh and Harrington too :[

JCD

Base 2-TE set. No FB.

Agree to disagree. I just don't see Harris as the uber-stud others do I guess. IMO, he isn't even at John Randle's level and Randle's 1-gap style hurt the Vikes on many a game. While dominant at getting to the QB (again, Harris isn't at his level IMO), we had a tough time stopping power running teams even with Jerry Ball next to him.

Who Dat?

I realized that after I typed it later on that you were going with a 2 TE set in that scenario. I'm too lazy to go back to the front page but I think LT was your feature back. Think he would be as effective in a 2 TE set of primarily downfield targets, average run blockers with no lead blocker?