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Old 08-15-2008, 05:37 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kaeotik View Post
If Haynesworth being better than Williams is "complete bull" Why was Haynesworth 2nd in the defensive player of the year voting last year, and Williams wasn't even mentioned?
Because:
1) We are talking about pass rushing in the post you quoted. It is complete bull to say that Haynesworth is in the same league as Williams as a pass rusher. Overall, Haynesworth did play at Williams' level last season.
2) Last year was a weak year for defensive MVPs.
3) ONE SEASON isn't definitive proof. This contract season was the ONLY season which Haynesworth has been considered elite. Contract year break-outs followed by rapid regression occur all the time. See: WR Boston, OLB/DE Thomas, etc.
4) Too many people in the press only go by reputation and numbers rather than seeing them play.
5) Haynesworth's actually was tied with Kerney with a whopping four votes, so lets not overstate things.

But most of all,
6) Getting more DMVP votes doesn't neccesarily mean you are the best player at that position. It means you were the most valuable that season. There is a difference.

For example, would you call Patrick Kerney the best defensive end in the game? He was also tied for 2nd in voting, so obviously he is better than Mario Williams, Jason Taylor, Terrell Suggs, VDB, Strahan, Allen, etc. What about Harrison? By your logic, the Steeler's LB MUST be the 2nd best OLB in the game today. I mean, he did get some DMVP votes. Thus, Harrison > Jason Taylor, Shawn Merriman, Brooking, Phillips, etc.
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Old 08-15-2008, 09:56 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD View Post
Because:
1) We are talking about pass rushing in the post you quoted. It is complete bull to say that Haynesworth is in the same league as Williams as a pass rusher. Overall, Haynesworth did play at Williams' level last season.
2) Last year was a weak year for defensive MVPs.
3) ONE SEASON isn't definitive proof. This contract season was the ONLY season which Haynesworth has been considered elite. Contract year break-outs followed by rapid regression occur all the time. See: WR Boston, OLB/DE Thomas, etc.
4) Too many people in the press only go by reputation and numbers rather than seeing them play.
5) Haynesworth's actually was tied with Kerney with a whopping four votes, so lets not overstate things.

But most of all,
6) Getting more DMVP votes doesn't neccesarily mean you are the best player at that position. It means you were the most valuable that season. There is a difference.

For example, would you call Patrick Kerney the best defensive end in the game? He was also tied for 2nd in voting, so obviously he is better than Mario Williams, Jason Taylor, Terrell Suggs, VDB, Strahan, Allen, etc. What about Harrison? By your logic, the Steeler's LB MUST be the 2nd best OLB in the game today. I mean, he did get some DMVP votes. Thus, Harrison > Jason Taylor, Shawn Merriman, Brooking, Phillips, etc.

Well said JCD, too many people correlate having an outstanding year as being the best in the league.

There's a difference especially when a player has a contract season hanging over his shoulders. To be considered the best at your position you have to be consistently good over a significant period of time. If you want to say Haynesworth has shown promise from last year and with another stout performance could be moving into the top tier then that's fine but you can't automatically tag him as the best right now. Players fizzle all the time, Frank Gore is 2 years removed from some claiming that he was a top 5 back in the league, now most of those same people wouldn’t dare vouch for him.

This may be a league of "what have you done for me now" but that's mainly to slot you accordingly in your pay grade. This is still a league of legacies and when you anoint a so-so player with only 1 year of eliteness to the top of the ranks you’re doing a disservice to those who paved the road ahead of him doing it year in & year out with hardly any recognition. I can only speak for myself but I hate the quick anointing of players that goes on with this younger generation, you guys are like a capricious wench; you change every time the wind blows
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Old 08-16-2008, 10:31 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Tennessee looked terrible against the Raiders last night. I do not think Young is the QB that Titan fans crank him up to be. Tennessee is an average NFL team is a very competitive division. They will battle Houston for 3rd.
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Old 08-16-2008, 03:49 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BigdaddyQH View Post
Tennessee looked terrible against the Raiders last night. I do not think Young is the QB that Titan fans crank him up to be. Tennessee is an average NFL team is a very competitive division. They will battle Houston for 3rd.

.....

One preseason game and the Titans suck?

What was it last week when we absolutely demolished the Rams? Super Bowl? Now that we had an off day (on offense) we are going to suck? I don't even know what to say.....
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Old 08-16-2008, 09:37 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MesaRunner View Post
.....

One preseason game and the Titans suck?
Ever heard the saying, "what can you do for me now?"

Besides, unless I am mistaken, "suck" and "average" are not synonyms.
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Old 08-16-2008, 09:45 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigdaddyQH View Post
Tennessee looked terrible against the Raiders last night. I do not think Young is the QB that Titan fans crank him up to be. Tennessee is an average NFL team is a very competitive division. They will battle Houston for 3rd.
finally someone agrees with me
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Old 08-17-2008, 10:45 AM   #67 (permalink)
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You homers should learn how to read, or is that something common in Tennessee? I said "average", not "sucks". Average is 8 wins, give or take. Sucks is 4.
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Old 08-17-2008, 11:22 AM   #68 (permalink)
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Tennessee Titans vince young needs work

Man i love the titans and all and theyre my favorite team. but if they want to be as good as you make the sound Vince Young is going to have to step his game up. In the titans raiders game he couldnt get the offense moving with passing.
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Old 08-17-2008, 04:45 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MesaRunner View Post
.....

One preseason game and the Titans suck?

What was it last week when we absolutely demolished the Rams? Super Bowl? Now that we had an off day (on offense) we are going to suck? I don't even know what to say.....


I don't remember anyone saying they were going to the Super Bowl. I read people talkin up the Titans after they played a lousy Rams team like they had already won the Super Bowl, but no one actually said they were Super Bowl material. Also, didn't see anywhere that someone said they suck. I agree they are an average team in a very competitive division.
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Old 08-17-2008, 06:10 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by K2 4MVP22 View Post
I don't remember anyone saying they were going to the Super Bowl. I read people talkin up the Titans after they played a lousy Rams team like they had already won the Super Bowl, but no one actually said they were Super Bowl material. Also, didn't see anywhere that someone said they suck. I agree they are an average team in a very competitive division.

They were talking up Chris Johnson after the Rams game, that's it.... It was well deserved...

Our defense is Elite, no matter what anyone says our run defense is top 3 and our pass d is top 10....

If our pass offense comes along we are a deep playoff team... As of right now we are definitely a playoff team with or without a pass offense, we proved that last year...
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Old 08-17-2008, 10:48 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MesaRunner View Post
They were talking up Chris Johnson after the Rams game, that's it.... It was well deserved...

Our defense is Elite, no matter what anyone says our run defense is top 3 and our pass d is top 10....

If our pass offense comes along we are a deep playoff team... As of right now we are definitely a playoff team with or without a pass offense, we proved that last year...


The Titans D beat a second string Colts offense. You had your elite defense chasing Sorgi. You had a second string defense against your first string offense, and still almost lost. Also, there was more than just talking up Johnson. I can understand being pumped for the season, but that's not what that was.
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Old 08-17-2008, 11:31 PM   #72 (permalink)
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The Titans D beat a second string Colts offense. You had your elite defense chasing Sorgi. You had a second string defense against your first string offense, and still almost lost. Also, there was more than just talking up Johnson. I can understand being pumped for the season, but that's not what that was.
So you name one game where we didn't play perfect? Wow, you're arguments are pathetic...

The FACT is the Titans have an awesome defense, bottom line...
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Old 08-17-2008, 11:54 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigdaddyQH View Post
Tennessee looked terrible against the Raiders last night. I do not think Young is the QB that Titan fans crank him up to be. Tennessee is an average NFL team is a very competitive division. They will battle Houston for 3rd.
I would argue that u are wrong about Vince Young, although he looked as bad as I've ever seen him look Fri. night. U know what's funny? The Colts, and Jaguars looked just as awful this week. So are the Texans gonna dominate the AFC South this year?
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Old 08-18-2008, 12:09 AM   #74 (permalink)
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So you name one game where we didn't play perfect? Wow, you're arguments are pathetic...

The FACT is the Titans have an awesome defense, bottom line...

That one game got you into the playoffs.
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Old 08-18-2008, 03:47 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Quote:
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So you name one game where we didn't play perfect? Wow, you're arguments are pathetic...
Yeah, it's pathetic. but u have to take into consideration that the guy is a Browns fan. He is undoubtedly still upset that the Colts rested their stars, and the Titans won. This eliminated the Browns from the playoffs. It also kept the Browns from being crushed by the Chargers. At least everyone got to see a close Titans/Chargers game instead. It bothers him that the Titans are better than the Browns, so he feels the need to bash the Titans. Sad. The Patriots are better than the Titans, but I don't feel the need to go to the AFC East forum, and bash them. MesaRunner, it doesn't matter wht u say. Even If he agrees with u in reality, he would never let u know it.
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